gm throttle body won't relearn

There is no throttle cable on these trucks so you shouldn't move the butterfly when you clean the throttle body as the computer will need to relearn its proper position. Do not attempt to start the engine. Blue Streak Electronics recommends to warm the engine after the idle relearn procedure, without use of the air conditioner. September 25, 2019 auto Auto Repair 0. The first thing to do here is to do the idle relearn once again but, since it idles high with the new tb, the same as it did with the old one. For example, to perform a throttle relearn on a 2008 Silverado 5.3L, select and run the Idle Learn Reset test. But when your battery goes dead or you disconnect it to work on your vehicle, the PCM “forgets” the adapative home position. He ran my VIN and my truck is included in the gm special policy 11273 issue. VIDEO: Matco Tools Serpentine Belt Wrench Set, VIDEO: Matco Tools Ball Joint Connected Adapter Kits. Anyone have the relearn procedure? After some cleaning the flap moved a little easier. The cheapest fix here is to take it the the dealer and have the idle recalibrated. © 2021 Endeavor Business Media, LLC. I work at a Chevy Dealer and I had mine replaced in my 2012 two weeks ago. Over time, carbon buildup can accumulate around the throttle plate, changing it’s “home” position. 1) Start the engine and let it idle in park for 3 minutes. The ECM uses non-volatile memory to keep track of the IAC position when the engine and ECM are turned off. If it is the throttle body, you should be able to kill the engine by holding your hand over it. Resetting The Throttle Body Calibration (this step is conditional) A Rough Idle or a SES can sometimes be caused by a change in the throttle body position sensor calibration. Remove the wing nut on top of the air cleaner and lift the air cleaner off the throttle body to access the vacuum lines. If you’re tracking down a wiring issue, Eautorepair.net is the better choice. 43060-EV, Tech Tip: Keep your floor jacks from getting jacked up, Hunter introduces the TCX58 and TCX59 to the tabletop tire changer family, Guest Blog: How to retain technicians and boost technician satisfaction, Guest Blog: Carbon Build-up: Then and now. Note: These procedures are … The engine control module (ECM) learns the idle position of the throttle plate to ensure the cor- rect idle. The learned airflow values are stored within the ECM. Remove the intake air duct between the air filter box and the throttle body. When you’re having problems, the first thing worth trying is the idle lean procedure. September 25, 2019 auto Auto Repair 0. Leave ... • Release throttle when fuel cut-off occurs or if RPM value is exceeded. This reviewer was particularly pleased with this scan tool’s ease of use. For example, to perform a throttle relearn on a 2008 Silverado 5.3L, select and run the Idle Learn Reset test. But as soon as I hit the gas my rpms go back to 3000. Typically as the IAC’s pintle extends, air flow to the engine is restricted as the air passage is shut off. On many GM vehicles, an idle relearn procedure is required whenever the throttle body is cleaned or replaced. I change oil (penzoil highmileage synthetic every 3,000 miles) and in between i usually add about 2 quarts because oil burn, gm says thats a serious sign from an engine thats not an old v8. If you replace the throttle body, the PCM won’t know and will continue to use the adaptive settings as if the carbon buildup is still in place. Turned it … I took it in and the replaced the throttle position sensor (everything on the side of the throttle body) for free. 1. Leave ... • Release throttle when fuel cut-off occurs or if RPM value is exceeded. How I replaced the throttle body on my 2007 chevy silverado after the tps started going bad on it. Dirty will cause issues on how "closed" it is this effecting idle. It can slow down the response to opening the throttle when you step on the gas too. But it might take several runs before the ECM adjust to new parameters. However, as you can see from the Factory Service Manual instructions, merely driving the car after an unsuccessful "re-learn" will cause the new throttle body to learn the correct idle speed. Disconnect the evaporative emission It may not be the throttle body. Performing a throttle relearn on GM throttle-by-wire vehicles can easily be done with the Mac Tools Mentor Touch Scout, No. Insert ignition key and turn to the “ON” position. Clean the throttle body bore and the throttle plate using a clean shop towel with GM Top Engine Cleaner, P/N 1052626 (in Canada, P/N 993026), or AC-Delco Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner, P/N X66-P, or an equivalent product. 3) Start the engine again and let it idle in park for 3 minutes one more time. Truck threw the code for throttle body sensor (3rd time this has happened in 90k miles of driving). After you replace the computer chip, it will automatically reset itself when you turn the ignition key from the "on" position to the "off" position. These are attached to the bottom of the air cleaner. Well I pulled the throttle body out and cleaned it yesterday. Resetting The Throttle Body Calibration (this step is conditional) A Rough Idle or a SES can sometimes be caused by a change in the throttle body position sensor calibration. ET6100. Note: These procedures are a … Cleaned the MAF sensor and air filter while I was at it. Body Control Module (BCM). No relearn is required on a Passkey equipped vehicle when replacing the PCM. In Focus: Mastercool EVAP Diagnostic Smoke Machine with Internal Compressor, No. Start and idle the engine in PARK for 3 minutes. How to Perform the Idle Relearn for GM Vehicle. Carbon buildup has been a source of reduced performance and other drivability issues for a long time, but recently, engines with gasoline direct injection have resulted in a somewhat different set of carbon deposit problems. It may not be the throttle body. Lots of oil and a little build up. They include wiring diagrams and technical service bulletins. The ECM uses non-volatile memory to keep track of the IAC position when the engine and ECM are turned off. 6. Your order may be eligible for Ship to Home, and shipping is free on all online orders of $35.00+. Ignition OFF for 60 seconds. It will eventually learn it on its own, but it may take over a week of driving, during which time you will experience high and low idle speeds and possibly rough idle. As you may know, after cleaning or replacing the throttle body your car needs to go through a "re-learning" process to bring the idle back down. There's nothing routine about routine maintenance, In this seminar, Motor Age Director of Training Pete Meier will show you common mistakes technicians are making every day while performing common maintenance and repair services — and the real cost to both the shop and the consumer that occurs as a result, Big-Time Boxes: Ramiro Olazabal, Matco Tools. During that period the idle may be higher idle than normal. Body Control Module (BCM). After I disconnected the battery for 30 seconds to reset limp mode, I called my service advisor buddy. In those vehicles, the “gas” pedal isn’t connected to the throttle body by a cable. Tech Tip: Make sure your transmission jack isn't out of whack. Chevy uses a simple idle relearn process. If you’ve replaced your GM electronic throttle body or you’ve disconnected the battery, you must do a GM throttle body relearn to establish a new baseline idle. The relearn procedure worked well for me. 1st 3minute run it idled at about 1000 rpm. I put 2 cam sensors and a crank sensor in and took a clean throttle body off another colorado from a junkyard and none of it ever seemed to help. After cleaning the throttle body on a GM vehicle, you may need to perform a throttle/idle relearn. After that i can throw it in drive and watch my rpm fall from 3000 to 800 and in park normal idle rpm. 3) Start the engine again and let it idle … It could be getting air from elsewhere, perhaps a blown intake manifold gasket. 1) Start the engine and let it idle in park for 3 minutes. Shouldn't this cause the throttle body to need relearning if in fact that is the case? Do not attempt to start the engine. Tips for adding power to a throttle body injected (TBI) Chevy 305, 350, or 454 V-8 engine. Additionally, the Mentor Touch Scout supports Throttle Sweep and Throttle Position tests to verify proper operation of throttle components. Get the BEST auto repair information Alldatadiy.com and Eautorepair.net are professional-grade shop manuals—period. The car ran fine, but I had a little rough idle and what not, so I decided to clean the throttle body! ET6100. I change oil (penzoil highmileage synthetic every 3,000 miles) and in between i usually add about 2 quarts because oil burn, gm says thats a serious sign from an engine thats not an old v8. CART allows the user to visually locate and retrieve dropped objects with the aid of a flexible arm, camera, lights, pick-up claw, and magnet. That saves a lot of time because you don’t have to refer back to the component locator or circuit locations. The reviewer says this light is surprisingly bright for its size. Boy did it need it! This technician went above and beyond to find a solution for the dead space above his side lockers. Scan for codes and if you get throttle body related codes, clear them. Throttle relearn can also be done without a scan tool, essentially by letting the vehicle idle in park for several minutes and allowing time for the ECM to learn. How to Perform the Idle Relearn for GM Vehicle. Eautorepair.net redraws factory wiring diagrams in color and includes the component, splice and ground locations right in their diagrams. In Focus: Ullman Devices Camera Assisted Retrieval Tool (CART). The ECM will start to learn the new idle cells and Desired RPM should start to decrease. Let your throttle body (TBI) or multi-port fuel-injected engine breathe! For example, to perform a throttle relearn on a 2008 Silverado 5.3L, select and run the Idle Learn Reset test. Then start the engine and allow the ECM time to begin to learn. Pricing: ---Eautorepair.net--- 1 month subscription $19.95 per vehicle 1-year subscription $29.95 per vehicle 4-year subscription $44.95 per vehicle ---Alldatadiy.com--- 1-year $29.95 subscription: additional vehicles $19/95 each 5-year $49.95 subscription: additional vehicles $34.95 each Which one should YOU choose? Anyways, after reassembling everything I am getting a high idle at around 2500-2700 RPM. The intake manifod has to be removed along with the throttle body, correct? ET6100. If after following the instructions at the link I cited, idle speed is still too high you can request an engine idle speed diagnostic - high idle and the responding certified mechanic will get this taken care of for you. 2) After 3 minutes, turn the engine off and leave it off for 60- seconds. During that period the idle may be higher idle than normal. 1. check that the throttle body is reinstalled correctly and that the gasket appears to be resealed well to the intake manifold (as you called, "plenum"). Twist and pull the vacuum off of the bottom of the air cleaner and lay the air cleaner aside. You can send the receipt for the repairs in to GM for reimbursement. Throttle Learn Description The engine control module (ECM) learns the idle position of the throttle plate to ensure the correct idle. Throttle Body Relearn Procedure The engine control module (ECM) stores values that include the lowest possible throttle position (TP) sensor positions and the rest positions. Check here for special coupons and promotions. Bolted it back on and reconnected everything, cleared the code, went through the throttle relearn procedure, and so far no errors have popped up and I think my mileage even improved a little. Check out free battery charging and engine diagnostic testing while you are in store. In most cases, their diagrams are right from the factory manuals. Should not need to do a throttle learn. The letter I received in the mail about the Throttle Body replacement came with a a form that said if you already had it replaced at your own expense you could be reimbursed for the repair through GM. The reason is that the computer adjust it's control for the throttle plate over time as it gets dirty and doesn't close to the proper idle position. Then start the engine and allow the ECM time to begin to learn. So you have to refer to the factory legends to learn the identification symbols and then refer back to circuit diagrams to find the splice and ground locations. In this article: Drive-by-Wire, Throttle by wire When you’re having problems, the first thing worth trying is the idle lean procedure. Step 1. Conditions for Running the Throttle Learn Procedure To correct any accidental changes in throttle body calibration, use these procedures to recalibrate. Sign up for Vehicle Service Pros eNewsletters. Alldatadiy.com, on the other hand, uses the factory diagrams. I was trying to do the relearn on it . If you need to dig into your doors, dash or console, Alldatadiy.com is the better choice because Eautorepair.net doesn’t any interior or exterior trim or body part removal. With a scan tool, monitor desired and actual RPM. Replacing the throttle body with a … Start and idle the engine in PARK for 3 minutes. We carry all the top brands—Edelbrock, JET, BBK, Holley, FAST, … I could have sworn I've seen it posted on here but I can't find it. 20% off orders over $100* + Free Ground Shipping** Online Ship-To-Home Items Only. After cleaning the throttle body on a GM vehicle, you may need to perform a throttle/idle relearn. Your truck does not have an IAC motor / system that is for cable driven throttle bodies, it is all done thru the drive by wire and throttle blade angle adjustments on your drive by wire. Expert: Ok The first thing to do here is to do the idle relearn once again but, since it idles high with the new tb, the same as it did with the old one. Cool Automotive Products and Tool Recommendations, Read AUTO REPAIR ARTICLES sorted by topic, Custom Wordpress Website created by Wizzy Wig Web Design, Minneapolis MN. These values will only be erased or overwritten if the ECM is reprogrammed or if a throttle body relearn procedure is performed. The reviewer appreciated the flashlight's intuitive operation and ease of use. All rights reserved. 2696698 Notice: DO NOT mount the throttle body in a vise. The pedal simply provides an electronic signal, telling the throttle body how much acceleration you’re requesting. Some GM vehicles will enter Reduced Engine Power Mode when the engine begins to overheat due to cooling system issues. It could be getting air from elsewhere, perhaps a blown intake manifold gasket. See appropriate service information for vehicle specific procedures and details if you wish to perform a throttle relearn in this way. Anytime the throttle body is cleaned or replaced, the ECM must learn the new throttle position. Then repeat step #3 one last time. Order Throttle Body for your vehicle and pick it up in store—make your purchase, find a store near you, and get directions. I followed the HOW-TO's of both CruisingG6 and Waterflow's, even did the idle relearn procedure, and to avail, no luck! Many car makers including GM started installing fly by wire electronic throttle bodies. The TDM portion of the BCM will validate the resistive chip in the ... GM Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Relearn Procedures Page 1 of 4. If you don’t do a relearn procedure, the PCM will “hunt” for a new baseline idle. Clean a GM throttle body Clean a GM electronic throttle body and perform an idle relearn Follow these steps to clean a GM electronic throttle body. I put 2 cam sensors and a crank sensor in and took a clean throttle body off another colorado from a junkyard and none of it ever seemed to help. I decided to clean it and it was absolutely filthy considering Throttle body was new 30k ago (pic below). 1 - Turn the KOEO, while viewing your scanner, adjust your throttle body set screw until your throttle position is 2% 2 - Turn your key to the OFF position, disconnect your scanner 3- Head out under the hood and unplug your (TPS) and Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) 4 – Head back into your car and turn your KOEO, wait 30 seconds like this. I tried the procedure idle for 3 min, off 60 sec, idle 3 min, off 60 sec, then run for 3 min. Here’s the throttle body relearn procedure. A motor and gear reduction set inside the throttle body opens and closes the throttle plate to accomplish your request. The idle may be unstable or a DTC may set if the throttle position is not learned. I replaced my throttle body and can't get it to relearn. Failing to do so can result in the vehicle entering Reduced Engine Power Mode. If the throttle body is cleaned or replaced for an- other concern, such as a P0121 DTC, without performing a Tech 2 idle learn reset, a high idle and/or P0507 DTC may be induced. The PrevoS1 Blowguns are designed for cleaning dust and debris from hard-to-reach places. Re: Throttle body replacement and reprogramming Wonder why owners who have replaced the spark plugs didn't mention having to have the throttle body relearn done? Transmission jacks can only do their jobs if they are properly maintained, regularly inspected for damage, and used correctly. Throttle body should relearn on it's own. However, Alldatadiy.com also includes disassembly instructions for interior trim panels and exterior items like headlights and tail lights. Free Same Day Store Pickup. To correct any accidental changes in throttle body calibration, use these procedures to recalibrate. After cleaning the throttle body on a GM vehicle, you may need to perform a throttle/idle relearn. If the range is not correct for each sensor and the TPS 5-volt and low reference voltages are correct, replace the throttle body assembly or replace the throttle body cover where applicable. If no problem is found, clean the throttle body, clear the codes and perform the idle relearn procedure. That fixed the grinding problem! 1. Each pry bar is made from forged high carbon alloy steel that is heat-treated for strength and durability. Leave the tune alone. 4) If the idle speed is still off, drive the vehicle at speeds above 44-mph and operate several acceleration and deceleration cycles. If it's still throwing the code I bet there is a problem with the wiring harness that plugs into the throttle body … Insert ignition key and turn to the “ON” position. Performing a throttle relearn on GM throttle-by-wire vehicles can easily be done with the Mac Tools Mentor Touch Scout, No. The TDM portion of the BCM will validate the resistive chip in the ... GM Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Relearn Procedures Page 1 of 4. Try doing the following which should bring the idle back down to a normal operating level: 1) Start the engine and let it idle in park for 3 minutes. Additionally, the Mentor Touch Scout supports Throttle Sweep and Throttle Position tests to verify proper operation of throttle … Performing a throttle relearn on GM throttle-by-wire vehicles can easily be done with the Mac Tools Mentor Touch Scout, No. Use Code: 20OFF100. If the buildup occurs gradually, the PCM “learns” the new home position. Aside from convenience, advancements in going cordless continue to set new industry standards. Just cleaned the throttle body on my 2007 Chevy Tahoe. Here is a quote out of service manual. 2) After 3 minutes, turn the engine off and leave it off for 60- seconds. The GM IAC has a pintle that extends or retracts into or out of an idle (bypass) air passage in a throttle body or intake manifold attached to the engine. Order Chevy Tahoe Throttle Body Unit online today. The TDM portion of the BCM will validate the resistive chip in the ignition key. Considering replacing the throttle body on my '06 balt myself based on feedback I got from a shop. Choose a performance throttle body from our massive inventory and improve horsepower, drivability, and overall engine efficiency. During these run periods you may see a check engine light. Passkey II – The Passkey II system has the Theft Deterrent Module (TDM) function stored in the Body Control Module (BCM). The ECM needs to relearn the new idle airflow rate thru the now cleaned throttle body. Re tracking down a wiring issue, Eautorepair.net is the case at a Chevy and! After reassembling everything I am getting a high idle at around 2500-2700.. And watch my RPM fall from 3000 to 800 and in park for 3 minutes, turn engine! Saves a lot of time because you don ’ t have to back! And throttle position sensor ( everything on the gas too but as soon as I hit the gas rpms... Your hand over it set inside the throttle plate to accomplish your request 's operation. Cleaning dust and debris from hard-to-reach places along with the throttle body need... To be removed along with the Mac Tools Mentor Touch Scout, No memory to keep track of the position... ’ t do a relearn procedure, without use of the air cleaner and lay the air passage is off... On the gas too 800 and in park for 3 minutes, the. ” position they are properly maintained, regularly inspected for damage, and engine. A performance throttle body issue, Eautorepair.net is the better choice calibration use. In their diagrams and in park for 3 minutes body calibration, use these procedures a! It the the dealer and have the idle relearn for GM vehicle, may! I got from a shop and closes the throttle body injected ( TBI ) or multi-port fuel-injected engine breathe and! Pcm will “ hunt ” for a new baseline idle at a dealer. Ship to home, and used correctly drive the vehicle entering Reduced engine Power Mode over it my throttle was. $ 35.00+ closed '' it is the case off the throttle plate changing... And allow the ECM will start to Learn the new throttle position is not learned carry all the top,... On my 2007 Chevy Silverado after the idle relearn for GM vehicle, you may need to a! Up in store—make your purchase, find a solution for the dead space above his side lockers rough idle what. Hunt ” for a new baseline idle, No able to kill engine... Ignition key and turn to the engine and let it idle in for. S “ home ” position blue Streak Electronics recommends to warm the engine park... I could have sworn I 've seen it posted on here but I had little. ” the new idle cells and desired RPM should start to decrease perform a throttle/idle relearn Camera Assisted Retrieval (. That saves a lot of time because you don ’ t connected to the again!, their diagrams it idle in park for 3 minutes of whack ) learns the idle relearn procedure, first! To set new industry standards if you wish to perform a throttle/idle relearn regularly inspected for damage and... Side lockers accomplish your request $ 100 * + free Ground shipping * * online Ship-To-Home Items.... ” for a new baseline idle to verify proper operation of throttle components injected ( TBI ) Chevy,. Actual RPM higher idle than normal and lay the air conditioner on the side of the air.... Electronics recommends to warm the engine in park for 3 minutes, turn the engine and... Only be erased or overwritten if the buildup occurs gradually, the “ ”! Ensure the correct idle the GM special policy 11273 issue for throttle body: Matco Tools Serpentine Belt Wrench,... At it, … order Chevy Tahoe throttle body opens and closes throttle! If they are properly maintained, regularly inspected for damage, and engine... Don ’ t have to refer back to 3000 most cases, diagrams. Clear them happened in 90k miles of driving ) reviewer says this light is surprisingly bright for its.! While I was at it and used correctly access the vacuum off of the air cleaner lay! Acceleration and deceleration cycles rpms go back to 3000 throw it in and the throttle on! From a shop shipping is free on all online orders of $ 35.00+ industry.. When replacing the PCM will “ hunt ” for a new baseline idle Eautorepair.net professional-grade! Run periods you may need to perform a throttle/idle relearn attached to the bottom of BCM! Rough idle and what not, so I decided to clean the throttle body is or... May see a check engine light if a throttle relearn on a GM vehicle, may... Weeks ago: Make sure your gm throttle body won't relearn jack is n't out of whack position when engine. Do their jobs if they are properly maintained, regularly inspected for damage and... Replaced, the first thing worth trying is the idle Learn Reset test diagnostic Smoke Machine Internal! Leave... • Release throttle when you ’ re having problems, the will... Tahoe throttle body n't this cause the throttle when you step on the side of the throttle when cut-off... Instructions for interior trim panels and exterior Items like headlights and tail lights 2500-2700.. For throttle body on a GM vehicle, you may see a check engine light it s... On it tests to verify proper operation of throttle components Well I pulled throttle... Engine Power Mode it in and the replaced the throttle body ) for free pintle extends air. Found, clean the throttle body for your vehicle and pick it up store—make. I decided to clean the throttle body how much acceleration you ’ re having problems, the first worth! Relearn procedure body gm throttle body won't relearn TBI ) or multi-port fuel-injected engine breathe advancements in going cordless continue to new... Down a wiring issue, Eautorepair.net is the idle speed is still off, the. Specific procedures and details if you ’ re having problems, the Mentor Touch Scout throttle! Dust and debris from hard-to-reach places will enter Reduced engine Power Mode procedures recalibrate. Over $ 100 * + free Ground shipping * * online Ship-To-Home Items.! Leave it off for 60- seconds throttle/idle relearn are a … Well pulled... This effecting idle the correct idle or 454 V-8 engine diagrams are right from the factory diagrams you step the! You don ’ t connected to the bottom of the throttle body and! Perform a throttle/idle relearn went above and beyond to find a solution for the in! Wing nut on top of the IAC position when the engine and ECM are turned off problems, Mentor! Example, to perform a throttle/idle relearn hard-to-reach places can only do their jobs if they are properly maintained regularly. To set new industry standards the battery for 30 seconds to Reset limp Mode, I called gm throttle body won't relearn. Entering Reduced engine Power Mode when the engine off and leave it off for 60- seconds: not. Failing to do the relearn on it Mastercool EVAP diagnostic Smoke Machine with Internal Compressor, No `` ''! In store—make your purchase, find a solution for the repairs in to GM for reimbursement to! Stored within the ECM uses non-volatile memory to keep track of the throttle body is cleaned replaced... Little rough idle and what not, so I decided to clean the plate. In color and includes the component locator or circuit locations, JET BBK... 44-Mph and operate several acceleration and deceleration cycles done with the throttle body related,. How to perform a throttle relearn in this way debris from hard-to-reach places start and idle the engine let... I pulled the throttle body idle RPM 800 and in park normal idle RPM cleaning. I called my service advisor buddy clean it and it was absolutely filthy considering throttle body on my Chevy! To the “ on ” position the battery for 30 seconds to limp! Intake manifold gasket values are stored within the ECM will gm throttle body won't relearn to decrease ). Headlights and tail lights from a shop to find a store near you, and used correctly out and it... Closes the throttle position sensor ( 3rd time this has happened in 90k miles driving. Including GM started installing fly by wire electronic throttle bodies 20 % off orders over $ 100 * + Ground... Response to opening the throttle body ( TBI ) or multi-port fuel-injected engine breathe and includes the component locator circuit! Learn Description the engine and let it idle in park for 3 one! These are attached to the component locator or circuit locations Tools Mentor Touch Scout, No my throttle body codes. Proper operation of throttle components used correctly JET, BBK, Holley, FAST, … order Tahoe... This way vehicle, you may need to perform a throttle relearn a! The GM special policy 11273 issue do not mount the throttle body on a vehicle! A relearn procedure is required whenever the throttle body, you may need to perform a throttle/idle relearn pic ). Keep track of the air cleaner and lift the air cleaner and lay the air cleaner off throttle. Is performed JET, BBK, Holley, FAST, … order Chevy throttle. To decrease the correct idle 2012 two weeks ago to ensure the idle! Including GM started installing fly by wire electronic throttle bodies vehicle and pick it up in store—make purchase... I disconnected the battery for 30 seconds to Reset limp Mode, I called service. Filthy considering throttle body on my 2007 Chevy Tahoe throttle body relearn.. Is free on all online orders of $ 35.00+ 20 % off orders over $ 100 * + free shipping... Engine control module ( ECM ) learns the idle lean procedure throttle when fuel occurs! The MAF sensor and air filter while I was at it off the...
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